http://www.vianegativa.us/2007/08/should-poetry-be-open-source/
http://www.sbpoet.com/poem_dancing/index.html
http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/copyleft.html
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/why-copyleft.html
http://ma.tt/2007/08/open-source-poetry/
http://opensourcepoetry.org/
Part I: Collapse
1. Deadly Sharing
The horror
How could it be described in any other way?
The original poem slowly being stripped away
In the name of Sharing!
2. Angst
Watching death
Slowly unfold
My creation
To be sold
Wretched apart for the masses to hold
3. Unimaginable must close-eyes
Open source horror
This monster that started out right
turns left, turns right
As only a blight
Terror! In the hands of many
4. A shell of greatness
And as the winds die down
Fragments of the true work rebound
Shaint as a shallow wind
They're ghosts
As an imagination of themself
5. Abyss
Lost, lost to the crowd
Genius dead, this we dread
Recognition lost
6. Curtain
And so it ends
Part II: Playful Child
1. Up
Heavenly stare
Joy glare
Holy batman!
2. Wow
Disrupted from my sleeping
I see a crowd peeping
We're part of a band
of joyous rogues
3. Premature interruption
We're sleeping, we're peeping
and oh-my-god we're leaping
IF ONLY THE AUTHORS WEREN'T SUCH PRICKS!
They're such intolerable dicks!
4. Excuses?
We just took a step this way,
took a step that way
And tip-toed the rest of the
way,
it's not as if our mission was to slay...
5. Ignoring
We're dancing,
we're prancing,
and oh-my-gosh we're laughing
It's such a joyous time to have
fun with others and rhyme!...
6. Rebuttal
But it can't last,
but it can't last...
Part III: Crash
1. Military
Copyright, copyright!
Wrong, wrong!
Left, left?
2. Drums
The marching band plays its
drums (expecting a payment)
For the writers who need to
be paid
The amateurs have not given their
dues
They need to be slayed
3. Phh. Amateurs
The amateurs are in "fair use"?
But why are the writers not paid?
Amateurs!
4. Lack of scope
You take without realizing!
You take without effect!
You spoil your own writing
with theft!
5. The reason
Copy for intent,
copy for purpose;
sometimes it's about money,
sometimes altruism.
6. Money money
You amateurs misstep!
You realize not your own backlash!
Create without me, and you're nothing! Nothing!
And I require my due payment.
7. Focus of money
Recognition? Yes, recognition.
In cognition recognition is obliteration
so many little fetters that schizophrenically matter
8. You suck
Don't understand? Don't know?
Well, please, keep to what you do.
Us professionals here do our job right, unlike you.
9. Professionals lack also
Professional writers taking up alms against
amateur writers whose inspiration comes from
the professionals yet who also propel forward
the professionals.
Long-winded-ass stanza - must be from an amateur -
STAMP! No money for this one. Too clumsy.
10. Sad
Chagrin chigran,
now for a depression;
for a lot of suffering,
and some manic tension
11. Down
Is it worth anything?
What is worth?
My poetry no good?
Well then I'll kill myself
12. Devilish grin
No no! Don't kill yourself
Manic thoughts -- fame through suicide.
We're the great ones much aided by being
dead?
13. Star!
Rush of fame!
Man threatens suicide!
Now professional!
Now ego-stroking maniac who becomes a copyright tyrant!
Yay!
14. Icky, friends are
But then faces his used-to-be-friends amateurs
Ruddy of-the-muck friends who aspire but ...
well ...
are too "independent".
But they're friends, and they're there for you when it matters.
15. Rush
They're sued after inspiration strikes,
but had taken one of their poems (he was better than me)
and had stolen it and propped self up as the writer.
Awareness of this, but it didn't matter.
16. Thin line
Betrayal.
Choose.
Friends, fame?
(either-or, really? wtf)
Enjoyment of self with others but in poverty?
Or high-times but often faking and not enjoying self?
Which less evil less unpleasant?
17. Dichotomy?
Sell soul to devil?
Keep soul but condemned to poverty?
18. One line
One.
Suicide.
It's on the newspapers, but it don't matter.
Sleepless nights, but because dead.
It's a new life.
Much sorrow. Adieu. *tips hat*
19. Possibility
Two.
Sell.
If only I could keep my friends, too...
but I stole his poem. Staying with these
people more means that of getting more
exposure, but at the cost of being with
them...
Why can't I have both? Why?
But I stole it. Credit him? At the risk of
losing my rep?
20. Further along
Two point one.
Don't reveal it. Later for film will
admit it, and then go back with friends,
the "morally right thing to do" and so
ends a good film.
21. Risky
Two point two.
Reveal. He's a great poet, y'know.
And yes, I stole it. I'm sorry about that.
(would you like to work with me?
No. Well fudge!...)
(would you like to work with me?
Yes? Awesome! I'll be the public
guy and you write the stuff.
But you want recognition?
But you're a terrible people person.
You don't care? Well it's sort of
pointless then because you've gotta
have an alright person-... fine.)
22. Hmm...
So, say it's alright. Cool beans,
but a lesser affect. Fame stops,
perhaps. Or does it? Don't know.
23. Confused
Three.
Don't sell. What is it to sell anyways?
Go back into the shadows and have
the poem published under someone
else's name, 'cause they "stole" it from
you. Pick the bugs from your feet.
A has-been? Why the dichotomy?
Part IV: Rest
1. Pull push
Back and forth, forth and back.
Why not both?
Screaming it to a wall.
Of course it won't listen.
That's not the point.
2. Prayer?
That prayer wall.
Maybe I should do a prayer.
Meditation stuffs might help.
3. Annoying...
Now I lay me down to sleep
a light sleep where I think keep
And if I don't wake up,
I pray that I don't rest on the wall
'Cause it's really pokey looking
4. Must there...?
Cute as I may be,
I have a question for my non-conscious self to see
Why can't I have lots of fame
without having the pains of
loss of friends?
Is it a true dichotomy,
or simply an area where there's
a lack of understanding?
5. Sky
But for now I'll rest my pretty little
head,
as I imagine days of dread,
days of pain,
days of enjoyment,
and days of rain.
6. A little trinket
Raindrops on my hats right here,
as I drift off to sleep watching
these reindeer
Hallucinating something not there
A dead poet's poetry is much helped
7. Starry Night
But that's a wish.
It's a wish.
Who knows what life will have to dish.
I know I may, I know I might
If only I could figure out life
8. Fi-nale
The head drooped,
the body relaxed
and there sat at the wall
a man asleep
*curtain*
Friday, May 28, 2010
Monday, May 24, 2010
Failed Vendetta
He sat, brooding. Brows forming a V as they strode down the highway, he reflected on his own irony. Value did not exist except that which was perceived. In aims to make money, people would forget the origin and reason for money: people. And him most of all.
What could he complain about celebrities like Michael Jackson or Britney Spears? Ultimately, too, they became a pawn of the public just as before they had been gods.
The car sped on, and he reflected on Rand's excellect pacing and how he could replicate it, as he drifted off to sleep in the warm afternoon breeze of the car.
What could he complain about celebrities like Michael Jackson or Britney Spears? Ultimately, too, they became a pawn of the public just as before they had been gods.
The car sped on, and he reflected on Rand's excellect pacing and how he could replicate it, as he drifted off to sleep in the warm afternoon breeze of the car.
The Media Philosopher
The philosopher sat in his room, pondering the mysteries of the universe. He tweeted the grand thought he had just had, and 20 of his facebook friends commented on it:
“OMG thts deep!”
“U rock man!”
“what inane emo bullshit”
“Nice”
“What u tlkin bout”
He referenced wittenstein, pwning them all. His sharp wit would stand no bullshit. Sleepless nights he had taken to writing, and this dribble was what he got back. Where was his equal?
He took a moment off to clean his toenail and tweet about it.
“Ewwwwwww!” Came a reply.
“Well fuck off. Unfriend me.”
“Ur such a dick.”
How could his torment be understood by these underling fools? Did they not comprehend? What was the worth of life? We are all dead in the end? Why taking care of the dishes, care for which clothes for which day, and annoying burden to go through? Where was thought for eternal questions, proofs alien to the whims of the masses? He was the philosopher, but no one would pay heed. Call him an emo, call him stoneage, but nay, never question your assumptions about yourself!
He sighed and tweeted a thought:
“Why am I such a deluded prick?”
An answer came:
“Do you believe in god but also think a lot?”
“...um, ya.”
“There's your problem.”
“OMG thts deep!”
“U rock man!”
“what inane emo bullshit”
“Nice”
“What u tlkin bout”
He referenced wittenstein, pwning them all. His sharp wit would stand no bullshit. Sleepless nights he had taken to writing, and this dribble was what he got back. Where was his equal?
He took a moment off to clean his toenail and tweet about it.
“Ewwwwwww!” Came a reply.
“Well fuck off. Unfriend me.”
“Ur such a dick.”
How could his torment be understood by these underling fools? Did they not comprehend? What was the worth of life? We are all dead in the end? Why taking care of the dishes, care for which clothes for which day, and annoying burden to go through? Where was thought for eternal questions, proofs alien to the whims of the masses? He was the philosopher, but no one would pay heed. Call him an emo, call him stoneage, but nay, never question your assumptions about yourself!
He sighed and tweeted a thought:
“Why am I such a deluded prick?”
An answer came:
“Do you believe in god but also think a lot?”
“...um, ya.”
“There's your problem.”
Sunday, May 16, 2010
Vegetarian topic organized, part 2
****Ethics
20. (Hypocrisy and lack of self-reflection)
"No place to argue that it's the
vegetarian who needs to see the
nutritioinst." Interesting.
11. (Defending talking about ethics)
"Ethics is what killed slavery."
18. (Hypocrisy and lack of self-reflection)
Comparison of deaths of lack of
meat and of over-meat:
13a. "When it's convenient for us ... look back ...
how barbaric..."
12. (Morals unique to humans; choice)
"because it is only humans that can have
ethical regard..."
9. (Unethical to attack with ethics)
Absurd attack with ethics.
7. (Ethical measurement)
Heirchy of reasons:
6. (Ethics as emotional and confusing;
preference and chaos) Emotional component:
pushing switch, pushing people;
-5. (Using imaginary concepts) Emotional response:
suffering,
rights.
3. (Plants suffer less than animals)
If plants suffer, still argument for vegetarianism.
2. (Sentience and emotional connection;
preference chaos)
Sentient (1b) - pets VS non-pets,
emotional connection (b1)
1b. (Morality of the gaps)
Suffering, morality - magical
****Economy
13b. (the marginal meat)
I'm thinking that "the pleasure of our taste
buds" outweighing the morality is similar
to that of being taxed
8. (anarcy ref.) Meat normal (7a) because of The State.
****Pleasure
14. (taste, addiction, McDonald's)
Craving for meat.
15. (fake? lesser? dangerous?)
Meat-identicle substitute
****Health
19. (fake, artificial, proof that you need
meat - ethics with that, meat VS pill (taste issue
again))
B-12 deficient: take a suppliment.
1a. (meat provides) protein
****Other
16. (what's the dif?)
Vegetarian or vegan?
17. (maybe answered already)
Check other and older videos
before asking about protein
10. (They WERE the droids they were looking for!
(ethics as being a confuser))
"These are not the droids you're looking for"
4. (YouTube stuff) Video response (I'll just have to remember to
go into it each time).
20. (Hypocrisy and lack of self-reflection)
"No place to argue that it's the
vegetarian who needs to see the
nutritioinst." Interesting.
11. (Defending talking about ethics)
"Ethics is what killed slavery."
18. (Hypocrisy and lack of self-reflection)
Comparison of deaths of lack of
meat and of over-meat:
13a. "When it's convenient for us ... look back ...
how barbaric..."
12. (Morals unique to humans; choice)
"because it is only humans that can have
ethical regard..."
9. (Unethical to attack with ethics)
Absurd attack with ethics.
7. (Ethical measurement)
Heirchy of reasons:
6. (Ethics as emotional and confusing;
preference and chaos) Emotional component:
pushing switch, pushing people;
-5. (Using imaginary concepts) Emotional response:
suffering,
rights.
3. (Plants suffer less than animals)
If plants suffer, still argument for vegetarianism.
2. (Sentience and emotional connection;
preference chaos)
Sentient (1b) - pets VS non-pets,
emotional connection (b1)
1b. (Morality of the gaps)
Suffering, morality - magical
****Economy
13b. (the marginal meat)
I'm thinking that "the pleasure of our taste
buds" outweighing the morality is similar
to that of being taxed
8. (anarcy ref.) Meat normal (7a) because of The State.
****Pleasure
14. (taste, addiction, McDonald's)
Craving for meat.
15. (fake? lesser? dangerous?)
Meat-identicle substitute
****Health
19. (fake, artificial, proof that you need
meat - ethics with that, meat VS pill (taste issue
again))
B-12 deficient: take a suppliment.
1a. (meat provides) protein
****Other
16. (what's the dif?)
Vegetarian or vegan?
17. (maybe answered already)
Check other and older videos
before asking about protein
10. (They WERE the droids they were looking for!
(ethics as being a confuser))
"These are not the droids you're looking for"
4. (YouTube stuff) Video response (I'll just have to remember to
go into it each time).
The Vegetarian Talk is long from Over, and that's good
Upon counting how often each subject was mentioned,
ethics won, easy peasy:
(Or it could be that I just found the ethic
topics more interesting)
1. Ethics
111111111111
2. Economy
11
3. Pleasure
11
4. Health
11
5. Other
1111
Most of my gripes were with other items,
but mostly to do with health and economy.
Accordingly, that the health and economy
issues may be generally resolved, does
not close the topic.
Indeed, I even made the video about a topic
to do with morality and ethics: Hypocrisy.
Accordingly, also, as has been pointed out
by confederalsocialist/fringeelements,
morality is the cause for a lot of confusion,
since it is hard to define and is often more
based in emotion. I suspect, additionally,
that the economics of the matter, along
with the convenience, go alongside
the ethics of it:
'Meat tastes good, I'm busy, it's
convenient, don't bother me!'
The second highest topic was other,
which also dealt with things not too
clear. Not surprisingly, problems
with YouTube was one of those things.
ethics won, easy peasy:
(Or it could be that I just found the ethic
topics more interesting)
1. Ethics
111111111111
2. Economy
11
3. Pleasure
11
4. Health
11
5. Other
1111
Most of my gripes were with other items,
but mostly to do with health and economy.
Accordingly, that the health and economy
issues may be generally resolved, does
not close the topic.
Indeed, I even made the video about a topic
to do with morality and ethics: Hypocrisy.
Accordingly, also, as has been pointed out
by confederalsocialist/fringeelements,
morality is the cause for a lot of confusion,
since it is hard to define and is often more
based in emotion. I suspect, additionally,
that the economics of the matter, along
with the convenience, go alongside
the ethics of it:
'Meat tastes good, I'm busy, it's
convenient, don't bother me!'
The second highest topic was other,
which also dealt with things not too
clear. Not surprisingly, problems
with YouTube was one of those things.
Vegetarian topic organized: 1. Ethics, 2. Economy, 3. Pleasure, 4. Health, 5. Other
****Ethics
20."No place to argue that it's the
vegetarian who needs to see the
nutritioinst." Interesting.
11. "Ethics is what killed slavery."
18. Comparison of deaths of lack of
meat and of over-meat:
13.
13a. "When it's convenient for us ... look back ...
how barbaric..."
12. "because it is only humans that can have
ethical regard..."
9. Absurd attack with ethics.
7. Heirchy of reasons:
6. Emotional component:
pushing switch, pushing people;
-5. Emotional response:
suffering,
rights.
3. If plants suffer, still argument for vegetarianism.
2. Sentient (1b) - pets VS non-pets,
emotional connection (b1)
1b. Suffering, morality - magical
****Economy
13b. I'm thinking that "the pleasure of our taste
buds" outweighing the morality is similar
to that of being taxed
8. Meat normal (7a) because of The State.
****Pleasure
14. Craving for meat.
15. Meat-identicle substitute
****Health
19. B-12 deficient: take a suppliment.
1a. protein
****Other
16. Vegetarian or vegan?
17. Check other and older videos
before asking about protein
10. "These are not the droids you're looking for"
4. Video response (I'll just have to remember to
go into it each time).
ladyattis: focus on obfuscation effect
of talking about morals.
Jacob: focus on that they are in agreement
and that the arguments are, in general,
in favor of vegatarianism, and also that
it's a preference
(anarchy)
20."No place to argue that it's the
vegetarian who needs to see the
nutritioinst." Interesting.
11. "Ethics is what killed slavery."
18. Comparison of deaths of lack of
meat and of over-meat:
13.
13a. "When it's convenient for us ... look back ...
how barbaric..."
12. "because it is only humans that can have
ethical regard..."
9. Absurd attack with ethics.
7. Heirchy of reasons:
6. Emotional component:
pushing switch, pushing people;
-5. Emotional response:
suffering,
rights.
3. If plants suffer, still argument for vegetarianism.
2. Sentient (1b) - pets VS non-pets,
emotional connection (b1)
1b. Suffering, morality - magical
****Economy
13b. I'm thinking that "the pleasure of our taste
buds" outweighing the morality is similar
to that of being taxed
8. Meat normal (7a) because of The State.
****Pleasure
14. Craving for meat.
15. Meat-identicle substitute
****Health
19. B-12 deficient: take a suppliment.
1a. protein
****Other
16. Vegetarian or vegan?
17. Check other and older videos
before asking about protein
10. "These are not the droids you're looking for"
4. Video response (I'll just have to remember to
go into it each time).
ladyattis: focus on obfuscation effect
of talking about morals.
Jacob: focus on that they are in agreement
and that the arguments are, in general,
in favor of vegatarianism, and also that
it's a preference
(anarchy)
Difference between Vegan and Vegetarian? A quick search
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism
"The Vegetarian Society, founded in 1847..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veganism
"The Vegan Society was founded in 1944 by Donald Watson and Elsie Shrigley, in response to the broadening of the term vegetarian to include the eating of dairy products.[11]."
The "11" note directs to:
http://www.vegansociety.com/about/history.aspx
which has as part of the text:
"The Vegan Society, the world's first, was born in November 1944 - after a lengthy gestation. As early as 1909 the ethics of consuming dairy products were hotly debated within the vegetarian movement. In August 1944, Elsie Shrigley and Donald Watson (a conscientious objector later to be acclaimed as the Vegan Society's Founder) agreed the desirability of coordinating 'non-dairy vegetarians'; despite opposition from prominent vegetarians unwilling to even consider adopting a diet free of all animal products.
In November, Donald organised a London meeting of six like-minded 'non-dairy vegetarians' at which it was decided to form a new society and adopt a new name to describe themselves - vegan derived from VEGetariAN.It was a Sunday, with sunshine, and a blue sky, an auspicious day for the birth of an idealistic new movement."
Thus, it appears that the difference between veganism and vegetarianism, at least from this quick study, is that
vegans have angst about the ethics of any possible animal use or abuse, as since "diary products" seems to be what the issue is. Accordingly, since vegetarianism is alright with diary products (which was an issue due to the "lack of protein" question), the question then becomes more aimed at vegans:
How do you get your protein? Which is to say, how do you stay healthy; do vegetables provide all that is needed? And, if it's a lot of work to become a vegan, do you expect those who do not share your moral qualms about animal use or abuse to join you? How would this not resemble, if not in slight bit, a Christian-like cult, in regard to the morals, if you prosthelitize, because of how hard it would be to be "faithful" to the diet?
Interestingly, there are also subsets:
"There are a number of types of vegetarianism, which exclude or include various foods.
"The Vegetarian Society, founded in 1847..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veganism
"The Vegan Society was founded in 1944 by Donald Watson and Elsie Shrigley, in response to the broadening of the term vegetarian to include the eating of dairy products.[11]."
The "11" note directs to:
http://www.vegansociety.com/about/history.aspx
which has as part of the text:
"The Vegan Society, the world's first, was born in November 1944 - after a lengthy gestation. As early as 1909 the ethics of consuming dairy products were hotly debated within the vegetarian movement. In August 1944, Elsie Shrigley and Donald Watson (a conscientious objector later to be acclaimed as the Vegan Society's Founder) agreed the desirability of coordinating 'non-dairy vegetarians'; despite opposition from prominent vegetarians unwilling to even consider adopting a diet free of all animal products.
In November, Donald organised a London meeting of six like-minded 'non-dairy vegetarians' at which it was decided to form a new society and adopt a new name to describe themselves - vegan derived from VEGetariAN.It was a Sunday, with sunshine, and a blue sky, an auspicious day for the birth of an idealistic new movement."
Thus, it appears that the difference between veganism and vegetarianism, at least from this quick study, is that
vegans have angst about the ethics of any possible animal use or abuse, as since "diary products" seems to be what the issue is. Accordingly, since vegetarianism is alright with diary products (which was an issue due to the "lack of protein" question), the question then becomes more aimed at vegans:
How do you get your protein? Which is to say, how do you stay healthy; do vegetables provide all that is needed? And, if it's a lot of work to become a vegan, do you expect those who do not share your moral qualms about animal use or abuse to join you? How would this not resemble, if not in slight bit, a Christian-like cult, in regard to the morals, if you prosthelitize, because of how hard it would be to be "faithful" to the diet?
Interestingly, there are also subsets:
"There are a number of types of vegetarianism, which exclude or include various foods.
- Lacto-ovo vegetarianism includes animal products such as eggs, milk, and honey.
- Lacto vegetarianism includes milk but not eggs.
- Ovo vegetarianism includes eggs but not milk.
- Veganism excludes all animal flesh and animal products, including milk, honey, eggs.[15]
- Raw veganism includes only fresh and uncooked fruit, nuts, seeds, and vegetables.[16]
- Fruitarianism permits only fruit, nuts, seeds, and other plant matter that can be gathered without harming the plant.[17]
- Su vegetarianism (such as in Buddhism), excludes all animal products as well as vegetables in the allium family (which have the characteristic aroma of onion and garlic): onion, garlic, scallions, leeks, or shallots.
- Macrobiotic diets consist mostly of whole grains and beans."
Notes to be organized: Vegetarian Discussion: Morals and Efficiency
1. Vegetarian
a. protein
b. Suffering, morality - magical
b1. The use of morality
tends to be emotional (which tends to mean
equals bunk)
b2. taxes = suffering (taxes lead to suffering)
2. Sentient (1b) - pets VS non-pets,
emotional connection (b1)
note: 2a. Sentience as measure for problem with eating
"the less sentient it is, the less I care about it."
"personal preference"
2b. Personal preference coincides with anarchism
and having different places or different tolerances
(i.e. Not imposing morals (personal preferences /
emotional reactions)
2c. Rock is not living.
2d. The levels of sentience - akin to NAP
and proper amount of retaliation.
2d1. Still room for revision though.
3. If plants suffer, still argument for vegetarianism.
10 pounds of plants to make 1 pound meat (heard that
also from StrangeGlobal).
Which I found to be an enlightening argument,
because I have before used the example of
extreme non-suffering ethics, where it meant
that you didn't attack or eat anything (because
plants suffer too), thus
making the ethical argument for vegetarianism
absurd (unless you don't care about dying of
starvation).
4. Video response (I'll just have to remember to
go into it each time).
-5. Emotional response:
suffering,
rights.
5a. Rights need to be discussed, if we're going
to be looking at if animals are equal to humans
in this regard.
6. Emotional component:
pushing switch, pushing people;
discuss.
7. Heirchy of reasons:
7a. Normalicy (it's normal, why change it)
7b. Pleasure (meat tastes good)
7c. Practical ((Normalicy) and being healthy)
7d. Moral
8. Meat normal (7a) because of The State.
(not efficient)
This is where vegetarianism and anarchism
agree and are friendly, I think.
9. Absurd attack with ethics.
Well, it's both, I think; ethics and economy.
10. "These are not the droids you're looking for"
Well, that was said in reference to droids
that they WERE looking for, but whatever.
11. "Ethics is what killed slavery."
Same way with "If people stopped supporting
the war in Iraq, there would be no war."
12. "because it is only humans that can have
ethical regard for humans and similar creatures.
A cow is no one in the same category as a human
being or rational creature."
Which is exactly his point: humans are the
ones who do it for non-survival reason,
not less-sentient animals.
13.
13a. "When it's convenient for us (such as the
day in vitro meat is cheaper), I have no doubt
we will look back on this and think how barbaric we were."
I agree. It reminds me of when I first saw
confederalsocialist's video (and this example
may be specific to me) - I had no understanding
of the position, and now I do. Likewise, it's my
guess that the mass meat-eating is partially
due to convienience and lack of thinking
about the matter, including myself.
13b. I'm thinking that "the pleasure of our taste
buds" outweighing the morality is similar
to that of being taxed and then having to
pay (if you recall that example from
confederalsocialist/fringeelements)
not just 10 units for a "free" road after
taxation, but 20 units for a private road,
because you're taxed anyways. I'm thinking
that, with this, it might be a combination
of... well, I'm not sure what, but it seems to
be partially ideology, partially taxation,
and I'm not sure what else. Does having
a State make meat-eating more prevalent?
14. Craving for meat.
I'm not much of a meat-eater myself. I eat
it on occasion, but I prefer vegetables.
This isn't a moral reason; I simply prefer
vegetables more, much of the time. I do
eat meat still.
15. Meat-identicle substitute
Yes, I'd be up for that as well;
that is, I would, I think, prefer it,
so long as it actually did taste like
meat and didn't taste fake-ish.
Along with that, as crazypants88 mentioned,
if it's safe to eat. Often artificial
stuff comes with possible risks,
such as with aspartame (although, I do
mention here that I don't know whether
aspartame is harmful. Mostly, I've
just heard that it is, and, I think in
slight relation to paranoia about
government, that's sort of why I
didn't use it, and why I still don't;
an emotional response that carried on)
There's a video series about it that
I've been interested in watching but haven't
seen: Sweet Misery.
16. Vegetarian or vegan?
line of videos:
SomethingSeaTrashed
Moral Vegetarianism Might Be Bunk...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHfYOktF3dM
Jacob:
Re: Moral Vegetarianism Might Be Bunk...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLe2EefzRiU
ladyattis
Re: Re: Moral Vegetarianism Might Be Bunk...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LoPfjzSTIo
Jacob
Ladyattis Vegetarianism Response
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=likUc1CypSQ
ladyattis
Re: LadyAttis Vegetarianism Response
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWeRHzyVm-Y
Jacob
Why I Am An Ethical Vegetarian
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXqSIVyXmlE
17. Check other and older videos
before asking about protein
OtherJacobSpinney
Technical Perspective of Vegetarianism Risk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPCclrbF-tc
18. Comparison of deaths of lack of
meat and of over-meat:
I'm not proposing an ignoring of
vegetarianism, but more of a wondering if
some meat isn't necessary to be had to be
healthy. I'm thinking that, however, this
viewpoint is fine, and what's really the
problem is ignoring this issue, and hence
the statistics about obesity deaths.
19. B-12 deficient: take a suppliment.
Oh. Ok. Does meat also supply this?
Wouldn't that be tastier? Although,
it would mean more harm. Hm...
20."No place to argue that it's the
vegetarian who needs to see the
nutritioinst." Interesting.
a. protein
b. Suffering, morality - magical
b1. The use of morality
tends to be emotional (which tends to mean
equals bunk)
b2. taxes = suffering (taxes lead to suffering)
2. Sentient (1b) - pets VS non-pets,
emotional connection (b1)
note: 2a. Sentience as measure for problem with eating
"the less sentient it is, the less I care about it."
"personal preference"
2b. Personal preference coincides with anarchism
and having different places or different tolerances
(i.e. Not imposing morals (personal preferences /
emotional reactions)
2c. Rock is not living.
2d. The levels of sentience - akin to NAP
and proper amount of retaliation.
2d1. Still room for revision though.
3. If plants suffer, still argument for vegetarianism.
10 pounds of plants to make 1 pound meat (heard that
also from StrangeGlobal).
Which I found to be an enlightening argument,
because I have before used the example of
extreme non-suffering ethics, where it meant
that you didn't attack or eat anything (because
plants suffer too), thus
making the ethical argument for vegetarianism
absurd (unless you don't care about dying of
starvation).
4. Video response (I'll just have to remember to
go into it each time).
-5. Emotional response:
suffering,
rights.
5a. Rights need to be discussed, if we're going
to be looking at if animals are equal to humans
in this regard.
6. Emotional component:
pushing switch, pushing people;
discuss.
7. Heirchy of reasons:
7a. Normalicy (it's normal, why change it)
7b. Pleasure (meat tastes good)
7c. Practical ((Normalicy) and being healthy)
7d. Moral
8. Meat normal (7a) because of The State.
(not efficient)
This is where vegetarianism and anarchism
agree and are friendly, I think.
9. Absurd attack with ethics.
Well, it's both, I think; ethics and economy.
10. "These are not the droids you're looking for"
Well, that was said in reference to droids
that they WERE looking for, but whatever.
11. "Ethics is what killed slavery."
Same way with "If people stopped supporting
the war in Iraq, there would be no war."
12. "because it is only humans that can have
ethical regard for humans and similar creatures.
A cow is no one in the same category as a human
being or rational creature."
Which is exactly his point: humans are the
ones who do it for non-survival reason,
not less-sentient animals.
13.
13a. "When it's convenient for us (such as the
day in vitro meat is cheaper), I have no doubt
we will look back on this and think how barbaric we were."
I agree. It reminds me of when I first saw
confederalsocialist's video (and this example
may be specific to me) - I had no understanding
of the position, and now I do. Likewise, it's my
guess that the mass meat-eating is partially
due to convienience and lack of thinking
about the matter, including myself.
13b. I'm thinking that "the pleasure of our taste
buds" outweighing the morality is similar
to that of being taxed and then having to
pay (if you recall that example from
confederalsocialist/fringeelements)
not just 10 units for a "free" road after
taxation, but 20 units for a private road,
because you're taxed anyways. I'm thinking
that, with this, it might be a combination
of... well, I'm not sure what, but it seems to
be partially ideology, partially taxation,
and I'm not sure what else. Does having
a State make meat-eating more prevalent?
14. Craving for meat.
I'm not much of a meat-eater myself. I eat
it on occasion, but I prefer vegetables.
This isn't a moral reason; I simply prefer
vegetables more, much of the time. I do
eat meat still.
15. Meat-identicle substitute
Yes, I'd be up for that as well;
that is, I would, I think, prefer it,
so long as it actually did taste like
meat and didn't taste fake-ish.
Along with that, as crazypants88 mentioned,
if it's safe to eat. Often artificial
stuff comes with possible risks,
such as with aspartame (although, I do
mention here that I don't know whether
aspartame is harmful. Mostly, I've
just heard that it is, and, I think in
slight relation to paranoia about
government, that's sort of why I
didn't use it, and why I still don't;
an emotional response that carried on)
There's a video series about it that
I've been interested in watching but haven't
seen: Sweet Misery.
16. Vegetarian or vegan?
line of videos:
SomethingSeaTrashed
Moral Vegetarianism Might Be Bunk...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHfYOktF3dM
Jacob:
Re: Moral Vegetarianism Might Be Bunk...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLe2EefzRiU
ladyattis
Re: Re: Moral Vegetarianism Might Be Bunk...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LoPfjzSTIo
Jacob
Ladyattis Vegetarianism Response
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=likUc1CypSQ
ladyattis
Re: LadyAttis Vegetarianism Response
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWeRHzyVm-Y
Jacob
Why I Am An Ethical Vegetarian
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXqSIVyXmlE
17. Check other and older videos
before asking about protein
OtherJacobSpinney
Technical Perspective of Vegetarianism Risk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPCclrbF-tc
18. Comparison of deaths of lack of
meat and of over-meat:
I'm not proposing an ignoring of
vegetarianism, but more of a wondering if
some meat isn't necessary to be had to be
healthy. I'm thinking that, however, this
viewpoint is fine, and what's really the
problem is ignoring this issue, and hence
the statistics about obesity deaths.
19. B-12 deficient: take a suppliment.
Oh. Ok. Does meat also supply this?
Wouldn't that be tastier? Although,
it would mean more harm. Hm...
20."No place to argue that it's the
vegetarian who needs to see the
nutritioinst." Interesting.
Wednesday, May 12, 2010
FacePalm Fun on FaceBook, part 5
Beating a dead horse?
1.
2.
1.
2 hours ago
Jeff Metz
@Sean: So what is it that you might believe? Is it simpy that Christianity is no way a possible truth or is there a religion or some other sort of belief in yourself and family that you hold to?
Based on your youtube sources (which I hope you don't get all your information from) they pose interesting arguments, but neither of them (richard dawkins...See More
Based on your youtube sources (which I hope you don't get all your information from) they pose interesting arguments, but neither of them (richard dawkins...See More
about an hour ago
Sean Windingland
"And I agree about it being rather stupid to be talking at such a length on a status message, especially yours."
If you would like, we could continue the discussion here:
http://www.facebook.com/pr
If you would like, we could continue the discussion here:
http://www.facebook.com/pr
2.
Sean Windingland For continuation of the singer who came out as a lesbian discussion:
After-Facebook FacePalm Fun, part 4
As per what I said before in that status
conversation, I have not responded.
But, I will share my thoughts here.
As the saying goes, "Idle time is
the devil's playground." Almost ironic,
really, that C. S. Lewis said that
"you cannot be too careful what you
listen to when you're an atheist."
Keeping the hands busy is a means
of controlling the mind, away from
thinking. While this is often beneficial,
it is also effective for brainwashing.
A presumption behind such a statement
is that conversation is not worth being
had, and that such people who engage
in it can do more productive things with
their lives.
My hobby is that of memetic engineering,
for that we, humans, are what exists
in this world as one of the more complex
things, and as per the power of our type
of evolution goes, we can create practically
any type of reality that we want.
Behind my studies are the want to eliminate
cancer, war, crime, disease, and most
human suffering. The technology that we
have is advanced, with most of it not available
to what is called the public because of fear
of what that public might do with it.
And how Christians talk, and Muslims talk,
I'm not surprised.
This is why I do not focus on a more hand-busying
hobby, though I could also do that, and I plan
on doing that also, since it coincides with my
current interests. However, to have a hobby as a
means of distracting one's mind from fundamental
questions such as the existence of God?
Whether people will combine together and
make life for someone who isn't like them, difficult?
You think this is not a worthwhile hobby?
It is a reflection of how the Christian/religion meme works,
and my being worked up about this issue, if you
would be able to display it as insignificant quackery,
then people will not re-examine their assumptions,
re-examine their axioms.
And as Socrates said: "The unexamined life is not worth living."
FacePalm Fun on FaceBook, part 3.1
Maren Sepulveda
huh odd.
about an hour ago
Kirstin Opal Harrington
hahahaha wow. people need hobbies.
8 minutes ago
FacePalm Fun on FaceBook, part 3
Maren Sepulveda
Sean, don't call my mom a heathen. Also God is not insecure He is a jealous God. and at the end of it all every one christian or not will realize he is the true God. if you don't believe in God than fine but don't make a fool of yourself by ranting on My status about your views. i hope you can someday recognize truth for what it is. the problem is your too smart for your own good.
21 minutes ago
Maren Sepulveda
Also i don't understand why you "like" the fact that she is lesbian the only reason that i can think your getting So defensive of this is because you are gay also?
17 minutes ago
Sean Windingland
I apologize for that remark about her being a heathen.
And I agree about it being rather stupid to be talking at such a length on a status message, especially yours.
And I agree about it being rather stupid to be talking at such a length on a status message, especially yours.
17 minutes ago ·
Sean Windingland
I will address a few issues before I stop commenting here:
1. Jealousy and insecurity are pretty much the same thing, just from different angles. If you're insecure, you're looking inward. If you're jealous, you're looking outward.
2. "Too smart for your own good."
Well, I'm not too smart to realize that it's probably not a good idea to simply bash people and create discontent for no reason. Unless that still appears to be the case...? If so, I apologize and will stop commenting instead of replying further if more questions arise.
3. " 'like' that she's a lesbian unless you're gay also?"
First off, there's the obvious difference of sexual interest. Two women is hot to guys, two guys is not as commonly hot to girls. Guys tend to be more visually-oriented.
Second, no, I'm not gay. I am slightly bi-sexual. However, "gayness" is not the reason that I "liked" it. Instead, it was about bookmarking it for discussion, as well as for #1 (two girls).
Does this clarify things at all? If it does, we can stop the conversation at this point, since this is a sensitive issue and it's been prolonged at a spot where prolonged conversations are awkward and weird, as you have pointed out.
1. Jealousy and insecurity are pretty much the same thing, just from different angles. If you're insecure, you're looking inward. If you're jealous, you're looking outward.
2. "Too smart for your own good."
Well, I'm not too smart to realize that it's probably not a good idea to simply bash people and create discontent for no reason. Unless that still appears to be the case...? If so, I apologize and will stop commenting instead of replying further if more questions arise.
3. " 'like' that she's a lesbian unless you're gay also?"
First off, there's the obvious difference of sexual interest. Two women is hot to guys, two guys is not as commonly hot to girls. Guys tend to be more visually-oriented.
Second, no, I'm not gay. I am slightly bi-sexual. However, "gayness" is not the reason that I "liked" it. Instead, it was about bookmarking it for discussion, as well as for #1 (two girls).
Does this clarify things at all? If it does, we can stop the conversation at this point, since this is a sensitive issue and it's been prolonged at a spot where prolonged conversations are awkward and weird, as you have pointed out.
9 minutes ago ·
FacePalm Fun on FaceBook, part 2
Sean Windingland
Look: If you're disgusted by it, just say so. It's a lot easier to make sense of, and you'll find a lot of other people who agree. And that's fine. And when you and/or others enact laws that makes life for those people who disgust you, remember that this is no longer a private disgust: you're interfering with other people's lives. That's why there's so much "hate" for Christians.
14 hours ago ·
Kristen Sepulveda
Sean, God DID create the world WITHOUT sin or evil in it. However, He also created man with a free will and look what man did with that....The Bible makes it clear that the world will always HATE Christians. Look what they did with Christ...CRUCIFIED Him. However, Christ still has the final say and will be the final judge, and one day EVERY knee will bow and EVERY tongue will declare that Jesus Christ is indeed Lord, to the Glory of the Father. And there will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth.....
10 hours ago
Sean Windingland
Kristen, how do you know God created the world? Because the bible said so? There are other books with other gods in them - so why don't you believe 'in Zeus, Odin, Krisna, instead of the Christian god?
http://www.youtube.com/wat
http://www.youtube.com/wat
How could God have created the world without sin or evil in it if God creates everything? That includes sin. And the argument that sin "came into the world" doesn't work -- remember, God is outside the bounds of time; thus, everything that is in time is created by God, including sin.
"The Bible makes it clear that the world will always HATE Christians."
While I do not know that much about past times, I can give a general example as to why Christians are probably generally disliked (to quote myself again):
"when you and/or others enact laws that makes life for those people who disgust you, remember that this is no longer a private disgust: you're interfering with other people's lives. That's why there's so much "hate" for Christians."
Your last statements about Jesus and God portray Jesus in an insecure light. Why would there be a need for "EVERY knee [to] bow" and "EVERY tongue [to] declare that Jesus Christ is indeed Lord"... if, as the Bible says,
"For the invisible things of Him, both His eternal power and divine characteristics, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being perceived by the things made, so that they would be without excuse",
(For a fun video about Bible contraditions:
http://www.youtube.com/wat
then it would seem that Christians need not be so insecure about their faith. And yet they are. So much so that there are many that make statements like "I'm not afraid to declare my faith!"
Am I insecure about atheism? Yes, to the extent that it means ostracism. I imagine it's rather similar to those who believe in God. However, I also carry a similar thought in that regard:
Blame the meme, not the meme carrier ;-) Either way, I don't hate you. Although, it is tiresome to hear the same old arguments rehashed again and again.
"Why do you believe in God?"
"Because the Bible says so."
"How do you know the Bible is true?"
"Because it's the word of God."
"How do you know it's the word of God?"
"Because it says so in the Bible."
And how does the Bible connect to God aside from the text having the print of "God says such and such"? From that standpoint, any book that says it's the word of God, is. But that doesn't matter, each religion is false to all of the other ones.
So I guess I know your answer to why you don't believe in Zeus: "He's a false God!" And what makes yours the "true" God? You filthy heathen non-Zeus Christ worshipper! ;-)
http://www.youtube.com/wat
http://www.youtube.com/wat
How could God have created the world without sin or evil in it if God creates everything? That includes sin. And the argument that sin "came into the world" doesn't work -- remember, God is outside the bounds of time; thus, everything that is in time is created by God, including sin.
"The Bible makes it clear that the world will always HATE Christians."
While I do not know that much about past times, I can give a general example as to why Christians are probably generally disliked (to quote myself again):
"when you and/or others enact laws that makes life for those people who disgust you, remember that this is no longer a private disgust: you're interfering with other people's lives. That's why there's so much "hate" for Christians."
Your last statements about Jesus and God portray Jesus in an insecure light. Why would there be a need for "EVERY knee [to] bow" and "EVERY tongue [to] declare that Jesus Christ is indeed Lord"... if, as the Bible says,
"For the invisible things of Him, both His eternal power and divine characteristics, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being perceived by the things made, so that they would be without excuse",
(For a fun video about Bible contraditions:
http://www.youtube.com/wat
then it would seem that Christians need not be so insecure about their faith. And yet they are. So much so that there are many that make statements like "I'm not afraid to declare my faith!"
Am I insecure about atheism? Yes, to the extent that it means ostracism. I imagine it's rather similar to those who believe in God. However, I also carry a similar thought in that regard:
Blame the meme, not the meme carrier ;-) Either way, I don't hate you. Although, it is tiresome to hear the same old arguments rehashed again and again.
"Why do you believe in God?"
"Because the Bible says so."
"How do you know the Bible is true?"
"Because it's the word of God."
"How do you know it's the word of God?"
"Because it says so in the Bible."
And how does the Bible connect to God aside from the text having the print of "God says such and such"? From that standpoint, any book that says it's the word of God, is. But that doesn't matter, each religion is false to all of the other ones.
So I guess I know your answer to why you don't believe in Zeus: "He's a false God!" And what makes yours the "true" God? You filthy heathen non-Zeus Christ worshipper! ;-)
2 seconds ago ·
Don't Vote or STFU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj6cx7x-Uos
Your vote matters
1. Look at all these votes!
The more votes that are there, the more apparent it is that
your vote is a small dip in the pool. In fact, during the last
election when I was considering whether I would vote or not
(the only reasonable person I could think of was Ron Paul)
I predicted that Barak Obama would win. It wasn't really that
hard to figure out. My main concern at the time was that McCain
wouldn't win, because he had sided up with Palin, and who
knew when that fucker would die and that moron of a bitch would
take his place?
The prime fallacy of voted could be demonstrated in one way:
Two wolfs and a sheep voting about whether the sheep will be
eaten for dinner. Could you predict that outcome? Hmmm.
The less barbaric way of doing this "voting" stuff would
be to have those who did not want the thing being voted for...
to simply not be involved. Those who wanted the thing voted
for could then proceed on, gung-ho! Unless, of course, the
money they needed was part of that group that said "No Thanks".
But at this point, you're telling people who don't want this
thing being voted for that you want them to be included,
and then to lose, just so that they're forced to go along
with this stupidity... because it's called "democracy"?
2. "If you don't want a party that doesn't represent you,
you have to go out and vote for a party that reflects
your thoughts feelings and opinions better than them."
Why? Why do I have to vote for someone? Additionally,
what if none of the candidates don't represent me?
3. "When we're talking about the difference between
parties being in the hundreds or thousands of votes,
your vote really Does make a difference."
Yes, at that scale, it is more noticable.
4. "My vote doesn't count? Well yes, yes it does."
And so does that sheep in the wolf example. I don't
think it helped the sheep.
5. "You just have to make the effort to find out
the best party for you."
None of them. And that's pretty much always going
to be the case.
6. "And then vote for them."
Again, why?
7. "Not voting is not a protest. Unless you tell
someone exactly why you're not voting, it doesn't
count."
Now here's a point I think we're closer to agreeing
about. When I've been talking with people and
they've been telling me that I have no voice if
I don't vote, I give my reasons for not voting...
like that two wolves and sheep example. So, I kind
of agree with you right here. If you can't explain
why you're not voting... people are going to vote,
and there's going to be majority tyranny.
8. "40-something percent didn't show up, and we
don't know why."
Well, now you will. Along with that, it is probrable
that those were apathetic people. YouTube has greatly
enhanced the meme, and now we've got a voice to explain
why we're not voting.
9. "If you don't want to vote, spoil your ballot."
That.... actually sounds rather interesting.
I'll have to think about that a bit. Nonetheless,
I'll keep explaining my "spoiled" or lack of providing
a spoiled, vote.
10. "Eventually, they'll hear you, and they'll try and
reach you."
Perhaps they could take the knife out of the two
wolves hands while they're at it?
11. "But you've gotta make an effort."
I am. To convince people that voting is hazardous
to the public health and economy. How? Because
voting endorses taxation, which part of Statism,
part of the corruption that is ruining lives
all around. So, if you want to really help out the
world, don't vote. Don't help the two wolves eat
the poor sheep.
12. "You can even go and spoil your ballot
and that still says something. It still
makes a statement, and that statement
entitles you to complain about the system
in which you live for the next few years."
So... if you vote, you've accepted living
in this "system" for the next few years.
Accordingly, if you want to live in this
system, doesn't that mean that you have
no complaints about it? It seems more like
you would be "entitled" to complain if
you weren't saying, "Hey, yeah, I'll join
the system for the next few years, I've
got no complaints with it."
If you looked at an apple and saw a worm
in it, and then decided to get that apple
with the worm in it, bought it, and then
complained about it, what do you think
people would say to you? ...Exactly.
To use another example that is somewhat
often used, would you join the KKK in
order to changed the KKK? Hey, you've
got no right to complain about the KKK
if you haven't tried to change it by joining
in and choosing the next leader, who you
think most closely represents you.
Y'know, do you want the guy who wants
to first shoot blacks and then hang
them, or first hang the blacks and then
shoot them? It's a touchy issue for many
inside the KKK, and must be treated delicately.
13. "Vote, or STFU."
Others have dealt with this one and I
don't feel like it's worth bothering with.
14. "Democracy isn't perfect, and it's
not going to be necessarily fair because
it's very difficult to incorporate the
individual into a system that's manageble
in a bigger government level. But y'know,
it's a lot better than some of the alternatives
that us flawed little complicated humans
have come up with."
And you know what would be better?
Having people who want to be included in
projects be able to be included or not included,
instead of forcing people to join in through
taxes and voting.
The second part of this bears of striking
semblance to what Christians say about their
religion: "Hey, at least we aren't violent
like the Muslims!" Hardly a good excuse.
15. "72% find people who vote incredibly attractive."
Noting the 82% of statistics are made-up on the
spot, I give you an even better statistic:
30,000% of people who don't vote lead more
intelligent, productive, enjoyable, and
sexy lives. And that's even more than how
many people voted for the Labour party
that got almost 20 thousand votes.
Your vote matters
1. Look at all these votes!
The more votes that are there, the more apparent it is that
your vote is a small dip in the pool. In fact, during the last
election when I was considering whether I would vote or not
(the only reasonable person I could think of was Ron Paul)
I predicted that Barak Obama would win. It wasn't really that
hard to figure out. My main concern at the time was that McCain
wouldn't win, because he had sided up with Palin, and who
knew when that fucker would die and that moron of a bitch would
take his place?
The prime fallacy of voted could be demonstrated in one way:
Two wolfs and a sheep voting about whether the sheep will be
eaten for dinner. Could you predict that outcome? Hmmm.
The less barbaric way of doing this "voting" stuff would
be to have those who did not want the thing being voted for...
to simply not be involved. Those who wanted the thing voted
for could then proceed on, gung-ho! Unless, of course, the
money they needed was part of that group that said "No Thanks".
But at this point, you're telling people who don't want this
thing being voted for that you want them to be included,
and then to lose, just so that they're forced to go along
with this stupidity... because it's called "democracy"?
2. "If you don't want a party that doesn't represent you,
you have to go out and vote for a party that reflects
your thoughts feelings and opinions better than them."
Why? Why do I have to vote for someone? Additionally,
what if none of the candidates don't represent me?
3. "When we're talking about the difference between
parties being in the hundreds or thousands of votes,
your vote really Does make a difference."
Yes, at that scale, it is more noticable.
4. "My vote doesn't count? Well yes, yes it does."
And so does that sheep in the wolf example. I don't
think it helped the sheep.
5. "You just have to make the effort to find out
the best party for you."
None of them. And that's pretty much always going
to be the case.
6. "And then vote for them."
Again, why?
7. "Not voting is not a protest. Unless you tell
someone exactly why you're not voting, it doesn't
count."
Now here's a point I think we're closer to agreeing
about. When I've been talking with people and
they've been telling me that I have no voice if
I don't vote, I give my reasons for not voting...
like that two wolves and sheep example. So, I kind
of agree with you right here. If you can't explain
why you're not voting... people are going to vote,
and there's going to be majority tyranny.
8. "40-something percent didn't show up, and we
don't know why."
Well, now you will. Along with that, it is probrable
that those were apathetic people. YouTube has greatly
enhanced the meme, and now we've got a voice to explain
why we're not voting.
9. "If you don't want to vote, spoil your ballot."
That.... actually sounds rather interesting.
I'll have to think about that a bit. Nonetheless,
I'll keep explaining my "spoiled" or lack of providing
a spoiled, vote.
10. "Eventually, they'll hear you, and they'll try and
reach you."
Perhaps they could take the knife out of the two
wolves hands while they're at it?
11. "But you've gotta make an effort."
I am. To convince people that voting is hazardous
to the public health and economy. How? Because
voting endorses taxation, which part of Statism,
part of the corruption that is ruining lives
all around. So, if you want to really help out the
world, don't vote. Don't help the two wolves eat
the poor sheep.
12. "You can even go and spoil your ballot
and that still says something. It still
makes a statement, and that statement
entitles you to complain about the system
in which you live for the next few years."
So... if you vote, you've accepted living
in this "system" for the next few years.
Accordingly, if you want to live in this
system, doesn't that mean that you have
no complaints about it? It seems more like
you would be "entitled" to complain if
you weren't saying, "Hey, yeah, I'll join
the system for the next few years, I've
got no complaints with it."
If you looked at an apple and saw a worm
in it, and then decided to get that apple
with the worm in it, bought it, and then
complained about it, what do you think
people would say to you? ...Exactly.
To use another example that is somewhat
often used, would you join the KKK in
order to changed the KKK? Hey, you've
got no right to complain about the KKK
if you haven't tried to change it by joining
in and choosing the next leader, who you
think most closely represents you.
Y'know, do you want the guy who wants
to first shoot blacks and then hang
them, or first hang the blacks and then
shoot them? It's a touchy issue for many
inside the KKK, and must be treated delicately.
13. "Vote, or STFU."
Others have dealt with this one and I
don't feel like it's worth bothering with.
14. "Democracy isn't perfect, and it's
not going to be necessarily fair because
it's very difficult to incorporate the
individual into a system that's manageble
in a bigger government level. But y'know,
it's a lot better than some of the alternatives
that us flawed little complicated humans
have come up with."
And you know what would be better?
Having people who want to be included in
projects be able to be included or not included,
instead of forcing people to join in through
taxes and voting.
The second part of this bears of striking
semblance to what Christians say about their
religion: "Hey, at least we aren't violent
like the Muslims!" Hardly a good excuse.
15. "72% find people who vote incredibly attractive."
Noting the 82% of statistics are made-up on the
spot, I give you an even better statistic:
30,000% of people who don't vote lead more
intelligent, productive, enjoyable, and
sexy lives. And that's even more than how
many people voted for the Labour party
that got almost 20 thousand votes.
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