Notes to be organized: Vegetarian Discussion: Morals and Efficiency

1. Vegetarian
a. protein
b. Suffering, morality - magical
b1. The use of morality
tends to be emotional (which tends to mean
equals bunk)
b2. taxes = suffering (taxes lead to suffering)

2. Sentient (1b) - pets VS non-pets,
emotional connection (b1)
note: 2a. Sentience as measure for problem with eating
"the less sentient it is, the less I care about it."
"personal preference"
2b. Personal preference coincides with anarchism
and having different places or different tolerances
(i.e. Not imposing morals (personal preferences /
emotional reactions)
2c. Rock is not living.
2d. The levels of sentience - akin to NAP
and proper amount of retaliation.
2d1. Still room for revision though.

3. If plants suffer, still argument for vegetarianism.
10 pounds of plants to make 1 pound meat (heard that
also from StrangeGlobal).
Which I found to be an enlightening argument,
because I have before used the example of
extreme non-suffering ethics, where it meant
that you didn't attack or eat anything (because
plants suffer too), thus
making the ethical argument for vegetarianism
absurd (unless you don't care about dying of
starvation).

4. Video response (I'll just have to remember to
go into it each time).

-5. Emotional response:
suffering,
rights.
5a. Rights need to be discussed, if we're going
to be looking at if animals are equal to humans
in this regard.

6. Emotional component:
pushing switch, pushing people;
discuss.

7. Heirchy of reasons:
7a. Normalicy (it's normal, why change it)
7b. Pleasure (meat tastes good)
7c. Practical ((Normalicy) and being healthy)
7d. Moral

8. Meat normal (7a) because of The State.
(not efficient)
This is where vegetarianism and anarchism
agree and are friendly, I think.

9. Absurd attack with ethics.
Well, it's both, I think; ethics and economy.

10. "These are not the droids you're looking for"
Well, that was said in reference to droids
that they WERE looking for, but whatever.

11. "Ethics is what killed slavery."
Same way with "If people stopped supporting
the war in Iraq, there would be no war."

12. "because it is only humans that can have
ethical regard for humans and similar creatures.
A cow is no one in the same category as a human
being or rational creature."
Which is exactly his point: humans are the
ones who do it for non-survival reason,
not less-sentient animals.

13.
13a. "When it's convenient for us (such as the
day in vitro meat is cheaper), I have no doubt
we will look back on this and think how barbaric we were."
I agree. It reminds me of when I first saw
confederalsocialist's video (and this example
may be specific to me) - I had no understanding
of the position, and now I do. Likewise, it's my
guess that the mass meat-eating is partially
due to convienience and lack of thinking
about the matter, including myself.

13b. I'm thinking that "the pleasure of our taste
buds" outweighing the morality is similar
to that of being taxed and then having to
pay (if you recall that example from
confederalsocialist/fringeelements)
not just 10 units for a "free" road after
taxation, but 20 units for a private road,
because you're taxed anyways. I'm thinking
that, with this, it might be a combination
of... well, I'm not sure what, but it seems to
be partially ideology, partially taxation,
and I'm not sure what else. Does having
a State make meat-eating more prevalent?

14. Craving for meat.
I'm not much of a meat-eater myself. I eat
it on occasion, but I prefer vegetables.
This isn't a moral reason; I simply prefer
vegetables more, much of the time. I do
eat meat still.

15. Meat-identicle substitute
Yes, I'd be up for that as well;
that is, I would, I think, prefer it,
so long as it actually did taste like
meat and didn't taste fake-ish.
Along with that, as crazypants88 mentioned,
if it's safe to eat. Often artificial
stuff comes with possible risks,
such as with aspartame (although, I do
mention here that I don't know whether
aspartame is harmful. Mostly, I've
just heard that it is, and, I think in
slight relation to paranoia about
government, that's sort of why I
didn't use it, and why I still don't;
an emotional response that carried on)
There's a video series about it that
I've been interested in watching but haven't
seen: Sweet Misery.

16. Vegetarian or vegan?


line of videos:

SomethingSeaTrashed
Moral Vegetarianism Might Be Bunk...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHfYOktF3dM

Jacob:
Re: Moral Vegetarianism Might Be Bunk...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLe2EefzRiU

ladyattis
Re: Re: Moral Vegetarianism Might Be Bunk...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LoPfjzSTIo

Jacob
Ladyattis Vegetarianism Response
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=likUc1CypSQ

ladyattis
Re: LadyAttis Vegetarianism Response
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWeRHzyVm-Y

Jacob
Why I Am An Ethical Vegetarian
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXqSIVyXmlE


17. Check other and older videos
before asking about protein

OtherJacobSpinney
Technical Perspective of Vegetarianism Risk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPCclrbF-tc

18. Comparison of deaths of lack of
meat and of over-meat:
I'm not proposing an ignoring of
vegetarianism, but more of a wondering if
some meat isn't necessary to be had to be
healthy. I'm thinking that, however, this
viewpoint is fine, and what's really the
problem is ignoring this issue, and hence
the statistics about obesity deaths.

19. B-12 deficient: take a suppliment.
Oh. Ok. Does meat also supply this?
Wouldn't that be tastier? Although,
it would mean more harm. Hm...

20."No place to argue that it's the
vegetarian who needs to see the
nutritioinst." Interesting.